03-April-2008 Morning Advertiser - Sutcliffe: it is tough. But it's not our job to keep pubs open. [MeshCMS]

03-April-2008 Morning Advertiser - Sutcliffe: it is tough. But it's not our job to keep pubs open.

In an interview this week, Licensing Minister Gerry Sutcliffe tells Andrew Pring the pub trade must move with the times

The Budget

AP: The pub trade warned the Chancellor that the current state of the market meant a duty rise would cripple its prospects. So everyone in the trade was shocked by the extent of the duty rises. Why did the Treasury not listen?

GS: The Treasury's argument is we have to maximise revenue, to help with issues like child poverty. Tax was 38% of a pint of beer in 1983 and now it's 28%. So the Treasury argues that this latest rise is a return to former times.

Personally, I think it's right for the industry to be upset about what's happened, although I think the personalisation campaign against the Chancellor is a bit silly. If we're to get Alistair to change his mind, I don't think banning him from every pub in the country is a good move.

Tough times

AP: The rate of pub closures is quite frightening, isn't it? What can you do about that? And do you see yourself as a champion of the pub?

GS: Yes, it is frightening. I recognise the pub trade is going through difficult times and there is concern in Government about the impact on jobs. But the marketplace is changing. The progressive side of the industry sees that - not everyone else does.

As a former competition minister, I know how concerned we were to have fair markets, but they are markets. And at the end of the day, the market determines what's going to happen. I am a champion of pubs, I like pubs, and many MPs do too. But I don't think Parliament could or should ever say, we must keep pubs open. That's not our job.

I know things are bad, but the question is, can the market sustain the current number of pubs? We know there are some successful companies, and they're focusing on things like meals and kids, which is great. But with more people drinking wine and staying at home, you've got to offer something that entices people out.

Where people have been ingenious is with things like Pub is the Hub, which I think is a great idea innovation that's working.

And I'd like to see more live music and entertainment. 1 remember Batley variety club, and how much people enjoyed that. I think the 40-plus age group would like more of that, a great night out with entertainment.

Off-trade

AP: The pub trade is being hammered by cheap pricing in the supermarkets, which is fuelling irresponsible drinking. Why can't Government get a grip on this?

GS: I saw it myself at Christmas that supermarkets were selling cans of beer cheaper than bottles of water. That's outrageous. The Department of Health, the Home Office and ourselves are looking at this problem, and we're going to report in July.

One of the things I put forward for the report is the idea that when cans get confiscated off kids if they've been binge drinking, we scan the bar code to see where it's come from. It may have been sold legally, but at least we know where it's come from.

Fees

AP: Licensees want to know what their licence fees will rise to, and when. The Elton Report's recommendations, which you've been sitting on since the end of 2006, suggested levels which the trade found appropriate. Local authorities were also to pay a shortfall of £40m. But there are big concerns that licensees will have to pay higher fees, and also be forced to pick up that sum as well. When will we know the new fees?

GS: We're obviously trying to get it right. There was a great deal of negotiation that went on around Elton, and we're in discussions with the Treasury to get it right. I'm not happy about the delay, but we've got to get it right. Part of the problem we've had has been the changes in the Secretary of State. Our new Secretary Andy Burnham is a former Treasury officer and is helping resolve the problem. It's a sensitive issue. There's still a great variation in view points. We're trying to resolve it as soon as possible. We're still hammering it out, but the result is imminent.

AP: April?

GS: Possibly.

AP: And will the result be consulted on yet again?

GS: We don't intend to reopen the Elton Report's fundamentals. But there will be public consultation if we decide to change the proposed fee structures and levels.